Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan gave an interview to Public Television. The interview is presented in full.

Petros Ghazaryan – Good evening, dear viewers, we continue to follow the most important events. Today we will talk with the Prime Minister of the Republic of Armenia Nikol Pashinyan. Good evening, Mr. Pashinyan, thank you for accepting the invitation.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – I am grateful.

Petros Ghazaryan – Today we will talk mainly about domestic political topics. There was a period when you were quite passive on social networks, now you have become active again, I see that from time to time you even enter into direct contact with citizens, commenters, you have started a family podcast. And for many analysts and politicians, this activity of yours raises the question: is the government preparing for snap elections?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – Definitely no, we have no plans of snap elections. And I want to draw your attention to the fact that there have always been talks about preparing for snap elections, that is, there is nothing new there. As for my activity on social networks, I think it stems from the need to ensure greater transparency and be in communication with more people. Any neutral observer must have noticed that not only have I never avoided communication with citizens, but on the contrary, I look for opportunities for such contacts. And this stems from a simple reality: the circumstances of our Government and my becoming Prime Minister, the origin, in short, from democracy.

Petros Ghazaryan – There will be no snap elections.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – We are not planning to hold snap elections.

Petros Ghazaryan – But, Mr. Prime Minister, look, many people say that we don’t understand, we are being threatened from there, our pleadership here are showing some kind of domestic situation, biking, etc. When do they work, is all that adequate?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – Regarding work, I can say that my working day starts at 5 am, not every day, but mostly it starts at 5 am and ends late in the evening. And I mean, in this sense, all the institutions of our country work even when I am riding a bicycle. Therefore, when we talk about institutional development, institutional development is that the institutions work and the work of the institutions does not depend on the Prime Minister being at the “remote control” at that moment, so to speak, because in that case the question arises: what happens when the Prime Minister sleeping? Or is it assumed that he should not sleep? If the Prime Minister is sleeping, how do the institutions work in the country?

I would like to address the first part of that question, that they are threatening us, but we are riding bicycles....

Petros Ghazaryan – We are making omelettes....

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – Making omelets or riding bicycles. In reality, we need to understand, I am not talking specifically about bicycles and threats, of course, but in a broader sense, that we have adopted the following strategy today, and one of the most important nuances of this strategy is that we understand that there are forces in the region and outside the region who have set a goal of generating a new escalation. And the most important part of generating these escalations, to put it bluntly, sorry for the non-political, non-diplomatic vocabulary, everything starts with a war of words. And in many cases, well-known forces try to drag us into that war of words, and traditionally we have been in that logic, and it has been used to explode the region. Our strategy is not to allow escalation, and we respond to everything in a way that excludes escalation, that excludes war, or at least, the justification or the preparation of the ground for war. And I think that the fact that in 2024 we had the most peaceful situation in the last 15-20 years is also related to this strategy.

Therefore, it is very important that our citizens understand that we do not respond to some things in line with how citizens or observers perceive it, not because we have remained idle, but because we understand the presence of provocation in that narrative. And one of the biggest tasks of that provocation is to divert us from our strategy and fit us into their strategy. Therefore, we continue with our strategy, no matter how much I understand that there are many nuances and there are many situations that are literally irritating. But the key factor in this situation is not to get nervous, because in all cases getting nervous will not be beneficial. And if the situation is manageable or will be managed, it can be done through cool, sober, consistent steps faithful to the strategy.

Petros Ghazaryan – Now the society is getting nervous, Mr. Prime Minister. The change in the turnover tax, other taxes, universal declaration, the increase in public transport costs, the increase in garbage collection costs, all these are causing social tension, which cannot but negatively affect the government's reputation. And the elections are not far off. Why is all this done?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – There is a saying attributed to Churchill, which says: a politician thinks about the next election, while a statesman thinks about the next generations.

Petros Ghazaryan – Churchill exaggerated a bit. Everyone thinks about elections.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – They think about the elections, but I think it depends from which perspective they view the elections. And therefore, what is happening... I would of course be grateful if you give me the opportunity to make my comments in concrete terms regarding the most key topics, but here I want to emphasize that our strategy is in the accomplishment of the state and its institutions, especially since I think that we, including the Government, have actually lost a lot of time in many cases. And recently, at one of the Cabinet meetings, I said that I accuse ourselves of a lack of determination in many cases, that we did not have enough determination to implement the reforms and carry them through to the end. For example, I have decided for myself to show that determination, especially on the eve of the elections, because during the elections we must look back and say, well, what did we do in the end, what institutions did we establish in the country, what prospects did we open up. And therefore, I approach the issue with that logic.

Petros Ghazaryan – Now about the universal declaration: the opposition and opponents and many citizens ask what exactly will this give us?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – Now I will give an example. For example, what will it give a citizen who has paid income tax and lives in the region? My observations in the regions show that, for example, the fees for kindergartens are 7000-8000 drams per month, which means that people pay approximately 96,000 drams per year for a child’s kindergarten. Now, those people who have paid income tax of more than 96,000 drams and fill out the universal declaration, that is, they are employees, will receive a full refund of the annual kindergarten fee for their child.

Petros Ghazaryan – So, is it included in the education fee?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – Yes. Look, there are more expensive kindergartens, where a person pays 300,000 drams a year, but he will get 100,000 drams back if he has paid income tax. In other words, we tell people that we, I say again, because the prices are different, I don’t want to generalize, but in the regions, when they open kindergartens, I ask how much the fee will be, they mostly say 7,000-8,000, community kindergartens, we fully refund the child’s kindergarten fee from the income tax paid by the parent. What’s wrong?

Let me tell you something: if citizens use these regulations of the universal declaration in the sense that they write off expenses: school, kindergarten, etc....

Petros Ghazaryan – Will all of that expand in the future?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – Now I will talk about it. Let’s say that as a result of this year’s declaration, which will be filled in 2025, that is, for next/this year, we can return up to 70 billion drams to citizens through this system. We are creating an option, an infrastructure to return 70 billion drams, almost 200 million dollars, to citizens. I don’t say we will return it immediately, because there is a condition for that, firstly, that the person is an income tax payer and has paid it, and secondly, that these expenses are properly documented and submitted in the universal declaration system. Is that a bad thing? We are returning 70 billion to citizens.

Now your question, of course, there will be changes in the future. We call these refundable amounts social credits. It will be easier to talk with terms. We think that in the case of purchasing an apartment there should also be a social credit, that is, a refund system, but since we already return 70 billion drams to citizens in the case of purchasing an apartment annually, that is, that system operates under a different program. Now, when this current program no longer operates Yerevan, it will already enter to some extent in parallel with universal declaration. Now about the current amounts, I want to say this directly, which is also very important, that yes, I am saying that we are returning 70 billion drams to citizens, but still, its parameters are not yet completely clear, that is, the declarations must actually be there so that we understand how much they are. This is an expenditure for the budget, and we must be very careful not to suddenly generate very large disproportionate expenditures for the budget leading to the failure to pay them for some reasons.

Petros Ghazaryan – It’s complicated. A person has to go and get a card, then he has to go to his operator to change the SIM card, he has to sign. Not all people are capable of doing that.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – You know, I’ll tell you something. What is planned is that a person makes an investment in the future organization of his life, because now there is such a situation that there are complications associated with getting an identification card. By the way, we have made a decision to cancel the fees for obtaining an electronic signature, that is, a fee of 3,000 drams was planned for obtaining an electronic signature, we will cancel that 3,000 drams. But it is very important for a person to perceive this as an investment in the organization of his future life in the 21st century, because in the 21st century it will no longer be possible to carry out effective activities without an identification card.

Moreover, with our strategy, we plan that by 2025-2026, at the end of 2025, at the beginning of 2026, you know, I have to be careful with these dates, because there are always some delays, we will have already implemented a fairly large part of the digitalization. What does this give to the citizen? for example, to get a child's birth certificate, one will not need to go to get certificates, etc., but will do the operations himself through his computer or mobile phone, and he will not need to go anywhere, stand in queue, or spend money on travel. Now, what do the identification card and the mobile operator have to do with all this? When we meet in this life, we have a passport, we show the passport, they look at the photo, they identify it. In the virtual space, especially since it is even possible to fake a person's photo, fake their speech, fake their voice, etc., it is very important that we have such an identification system that the two parties cooperating with each other on both sides of the computer are sure that they are cooperating with the person under the name they present themselves. Can you imagine if some fake person sells a car to some other citizen and receives money in return? The second case is that a person should not need to go to different places to sell a car, tell the customer to come, for example, look at the car in my yard, if you like it, they can make that transaction right there without going anywhere, and complete it, because in that digital space, people are already identified with their identification card, integrated with their bank accounts, etc., and can freely perform those actions.

Petros Ghazaryan – But all of that must also be technically appropriate and very affordable. We saw, for example, in terms of the packages for changing bus fees, how many technical problems arose.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – Yes, a technical problem arose, so let's divide the issues into three parts: conceptual, substantive and technical. When I say that any reform must face its problem in order for it to start living, I mean just that, because there is the question of why reforms aren't prepared to the end and only then begin to work? All reforms are prepared and those responsible say that the reform is ready, but life is always something else, the project must go and meet life in order to be born. It must go and meet that problem itself, because no project is designed with the presumption that some device will not work. In all projects, all devices work well. Therefore, the project must come into life so that we can see its shortcomings and, by solving the shortcomings, little by little go ahead.

Petros Ghazaryan - Very good. Look, the other discussion that is going on is that the government generally dictates the agenda, it has much more resources, and you are constantly discussing historical Armenia, new Armenia, new anthem, old anthem, Ararat or Aragats. Don't you think that these are not wrong debates, discourses, but rather they are kind of non timely, because in the face of the challenges that we are facing, it would be right for you and the opposition to debate how to conceptually improve the army, how to make the reserve forces more viable than it was during the war, and the logistics of diversifying our security, army, and security. In other words, issues that are of vital importance today. Wouldn't it be right to debate on such discourses, whether Ararat or Aragats, and bring them to the agenda when our security problems are resolved?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - You ask a very correct and important question, even with the example of army reforms. The discourse of Ararat and Aragats is very important for army reforms. Why? Because if we reform the army under the discourse of Ararat and historical Armenia, no one will not only sell us weapons, will not only not establish military cooperation with us, but we will also contradict ourselves, including from the point of view of the international community, because it is one thing when you say, you know what, I am reforming my army, because Ararat is mine and I must go and bring Ararat back, it is another thing when you say, I am reforming the army, because Aragats is my internationally recognized sovereign territory and I have the right to have a combat-ready army to ensure my territorial integrity, independence, sovereignty, and the security of my citizens. Moreover, under international law, any state is obliged to take measures to ensure the security of its citizens. The discourse of Ararat and Aragats that you mentioned is for solving very practical problems, because many of our practical problems come from our worldview and our socio-psychology.

You spoke about the anthem. There is no question of the old anthem or the new anthem. It is only about the following: with what words do we want our anthem to end? Until now, it ended with “but blessed is one who for the freedom of our nation will die,” we have not proposed to do anything with these lines and we are not doing anything. On the contrary, we propose to move these lines forward, that is, to move them forward in the same text, and in the new version we propose that the anthem of the Republic of Armenia end with “may Armenia always be glorified.” No new lines are being added. These are also issues related to the state’s agenda, including the external and internal agenda.

Petros Ghazaryan - Mr. Prime Minister, that is why, if you noticed, I did not say that this discourse is wrong, I said that it is simply untimely.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - I would say it is belated.

Petros Ghazaryan - It's belated, yes, but is it the propper time for that? Let me give you an example. An ordinary citizen sees Overchuk says that you went to the European Union, you're going to leave here, he thinks what will happen to gas supply, what will we do with the export, how will we get out of it, Russia is not with us. Then he sees Aliyev says that we are fascist, and then whatches our National Assembly. What are we talking about? Ararat or Aragats, should we take this line of the anthem there or not, is the new Armenia right or the old Armenia? And people say: wait a minute, what about all the rest?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - With the examples you mentioned, it is urgent now and it is essential for us, it is important that we orient ourselves in the issue of our strategy for the future. These are discussions about our vision of the future. And it has to do with everything. It has to do with the price of gas, and with exports, and with the diversification of relations. We cannot have a combat-ready army under that discourse. We simply will not be allowed to.

We cannot have a combat-ready army under the Ararat discourse, we cannot buy modern weapons under the Ararat discourse, under the Ararat discourse they will give us used, almost expired weapons. Moreover, they will donate some, and sell some, because they are not going to use them at all, but would throw them away, which is what has happened to us for many years. And under this discourse we will lose our independence every day, without noticing it, with patriotic motives. This is what we are talking about. It is with this in mind that everything is being done, because it is within the framework of the issues you mentioned.

Petros Ghazaryan - Here is the question of priorities. Isn't it right to do all this after resolving the issues?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - If you don't do this, you won't solve those issues. Listen, I'm saying something very simple, when we say they are threatening us, what is the content of the threat about? The content of the threat is about the following: they say look, they are buying weapons so that they can come and occupy our territories, or re-occupy our territories. And why are they saying this under this narrative? At first, I said that they are forming justifications for continuing aggressive actions against Armenia or taking new aggressive actions. In response, we say that this is the sovereign territory of our country, we recognize the territorial integrity of our neighbors, and we do not and will not set any other task than ensuring the security of our sovereign territory. We are also ready to assume binding international obligations. And this is what gives us the opportunity to diversify our relations, including those in the security sphere, because if our narrative is that we, with the picture of Ararat, go and say give us weapons, no one will give us weapons.

Do you know why? Because no one wants to enter into a conflict with Turkey, especially because of us. Isn't this clear? Secondly, we can formulate our narratives like that, which would mean saying that we are going to occupy Ararat, we are going to occupy Mush and Ardahan, we are going to occupy Karvachar, or at least, excuse me, let's name it liberate them, etc., etc.. That means we are making ourselves a target today. And those who target us will be able to justify it as to why we are a target.

And therefore, we will pursue the path of self-destruction. That's what we're talking about. But there's also the second issue, that even those who are not so critical of this attitude say, yes, this government is being clever, now we're saying, no, no, no, this is the Republic of Armenia, we have no territorial claims, we'll get stronger, then we'll talk. No. I'm saying, people, citizens of the Republic of Armenia, we must remain in this strategy today, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, forever, because that's what will ensure the survival of our state. Otherwise, we will create coalitions around us to destroy our state. It's very simple.

Do you think Ararat and Aragats are a mental exercise? This is a very serious strategic issue. And for me, excuse me, I'm saying again, I'm not talking about anyone else with this narrative, this is about all of us, this concerns our socio-psychology.

Petros Ghazaryan - They tell you that you are destroying our identity.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - I am saying that our identity is connected with the Republic of Armenia. I have no other identity. In the modern world, identities are connected with states. Yesterday I had a meeting with a group of Swiss-Armenians, I was saying that they tell us that we are anti-national, we are destroying our identity, but every year, tens of thousands of Armenians forget the last word they knew in Armenian.

Petros Ghazaryan - In the Diaspora.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - In the Diaspora. Who does that there? The way to ensure identity is the state. If you have a state, you will have an identity, if you do not have a state, you will not have an identity. The rest is a legend.
Our identity, which we have preserved even in the periods we did not have a state, after the 15th century, we have preserved only thanks to the institutions and values that we had formed during the period of statehood. If we did not have a state, if there was no King Artashes, if there were no other kings of ours, if there was no King Pap, if there was no King Trdat, if our states didn't exist, we wouldn't have an identity today. This is what we're talking about.

The strategy of Real Armenia is precisely about that the homeland is the state. There is no homeland outside the state. And why is it necessary to emphasize this now? Because I, you, we did not perceive it that way. It seemed to us that we could look at any part of the world map and say this is our homeland, and as a result we have become an outpost. If we want to be an independent state, we must make the homeland and the state synonyms, we must say that we focus on serving the state and its interests, and we have no ambition to ruin the lives of others or take pieces of other people's internationally recognized territories.

Petros Ghazaryan - But don't you think that this idea leaves out the Diaspora?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - In what way, excuse me, does it leave out the Diaspora?

Petros Ghazaryan - Because the Diaspora was born from the very homeland that is no longer ours, and they live by that idea, that belief.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - So that they can do what?

Petros Ghazaryan - So that they can return there one day.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - But what does that have to do with the Republic of Armenia?

Petros Ghazaryan – If it has nothing to do with it, they are being alienated from the Republic of Armenia.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Look, look, a person, for example, lives in Australia, for example, he dreams of one day returning to the birthplace of his grandfathers, he lives in Australia, he wants to return to the birthplace of his grandfathers, let him return, what does the Republic of Armenia have to do with it, what does the Republic of Armenia have to do with it?

Petros Ghazaryan – Another topic. It's been 7 years, next year there are elections again, we can't get rid of the debate about the previous and current authorities. As soon as the National Assembly begins works, an oppositionist comes and says that you are traitors, you immediately say there: looters, you destroyed the country, and this cycle does not end. And to solve the problems that we have, at least certain rules of coexistence between the opposition, the government and segments of society are needed. There is no such thing, Mr. Prime Minister.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - No, you know, you're talking about the discourse of previous and present authorities. It's also related to today's map of the parliament, because part of the parliament is the current government today, part is the former government. There are 3 factions in the parliament and all the 3 factions, all of them are either the former government or the current government, but I will not deny that the former government is a very convenient target for the current government. And I acknowledge that we need to bring other discourses, and we are bringing other discourses now. We talked quite a lot, you brought up the topic of the past and present government, I didn't talk about it, and I'm talking about the strategy of Real Armenia, about the accomplishment of state institutions, I'm ready to talk about the turnover tax, I'm ready to talk about Yerevan's public transport problems. Although in this case, there may also be a connection to the past, that is, not to the former government, but to history of how we got to this point.

Concluding the previous topic, the man, our compatriot, lives in Australia, wants to return to the homeland of his grandfathers, which could be anywhere in the world, including Mush, Ardahan, Sis, but should we make our soldiers a target for that goal, is that what we want? In other words, we want missiles to fall on our military units at any moment because there are people in Canberra who want to return to the birthplace of their grandfathers, which is Adana. Is this logical?

Petros Ghazaryan - No.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - So that after some time other people will live in Canberra and want to return to the birthplace of their grandfathers, which is Dilijan, which is Ijevan, which is Sevan. Is that what we want?

Petros Ghazaryan - Mr. Prime Minister, since you mentioned the increase in public transport prices, I want to ask you directly whether you are in favor of the price increase or not.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - I am in favor of Yerevan having transport. I am in favor of Yerevan having transport not only today, but also in five years, in ten years, in fifteen years. There was time when Yerevan had a transport system: metro, tram, trolleybus, bus. That transport system did not exist until recently. Why did it not exist? Because the idea and formula of economic efficiency, economic sustainability or economic durability were not put at the heart of the management of that transport system, that is, it was said that now there is some transport system, let's drive this transport until it wears out to the point of immobility, after that whether it will be "Gazelle" or "Yeraz" or whatever will happen is no longer our business. I am in favor of Yerevan having transport and Armenia having transport. Today, we have a problem of introducing a transport system in dozens of villages and settlements. People are unable to move from their villages and the only mechanism for moving is taxis.

First, I had promised that the Gazelles would no longer serve as public transport means, and the Gazelles have left the city. Today, there is no Gazelle in the city, but this transport system must develop, it must change. Now we are wearing out the metro, until when should we wear it out? Well, what happened with the trams. What happened with the trolleybuses? Should we have a strategic infrastructure or not, or we have brought MAN buses now, should we say we will wear them out in five years, what will happen after that, will happen? Is this our logic? I don't agree with this logic, I agree with the logic that the city should have a transport system in the long term.

Petros Ghazaryan - But look, this also implies a serious change in behavior, doesn't it? People should go, get those tickets, calculate them, etc. Isn't that a lot for one year at once, that reform, and this reform. Isn't it right to do it little by little?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Actually, it is done little by little, because we have been preparing all these reforms since 2018, that is, we came with the willingness and commitment to carry out reforms. That is, it is done little by little.

All these laws, for example, the universal declaration law did not enter into force this year, this year it entered into force for a different group. For example, last year I also filled out a universal declaration, and I filled out a declaration for a high-ranking official, but the laws were adopted before that, the projects were formed before that, the concept was developed before that. In other words, these are reforms that have been discussed for a very long time, which have now entered the implementation stage.

But now let's look at our previous years. Well, in 2018 there was a revolution, there were snap elections in the fall. 2019 was a period of planning the framework of these reforms, 2020 - Covid and war. Could we have done this reform in 2020? 2021 - snap elections, deep regional escalations, instability. Could we have done it? We could not. 2022 - tension, the September 2022 war, constant escalations around Nagorno-Karabakh, constant escalations. Then 2022-23 - the closure of the Lachin corridor, that constantly growing tension, when you have to deal with it on a daily basis, the blockade of the Lachin corridor, then the forced displacement. Was it appropriate to do all that in 2023?

2024 was the first year when we had the opportunity to focus more on our strategies for the future. And in 2024, it's not like everything was very calm. There was a process of delimitation, again with internal ferments, etc., and so on. There is the saying that reform should be done at a convenient time, but the time for reform is never convenient. You say that a person must move. A person moves one way or another, he goes to certain places, but we want to structure a person's movement in such a way that this movement is effective, contributes to his more prosperous life.

I remember the following, when in 2019 we were in my native village, where there was a lot of illegal deforestation and, unfortunately, it continues to this day, when we had taken very strict measures there, people were complaining, saying, "You don't let us live." I was saying, listen...

Petros Ghazaryan – And there were rallies.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Yes, there were rallies, I was saying, listen, you have been doing this for 20 years, are you living well, can you say that you have built prosperity? You can destroy the forest while getting by, and in the end the forest will be destroyed and we will continue to get by and not acquire the skills to create results.

The role of the government is also to create conditions for people to change their views, change their direction. Instead of earning two coins by destroying the forest, they should think that this forest can be a very good capital investment that will bring tourist flows. Now, in that same village, they have formed new businesses, the people who used their SUVs at that time to carry wood from the forest, if you go to Ijevan via Dilijan, you will see those SUVs standing by the side of the roads, taking people to the mountains and back. And they make at least several times more money than by destroying those trees. This is a simple example. The same applies to other reforms. And besides, people go to the forest to climb the mountain, just because those trees are there.

Petros Ghazaryan - Mr. Prime Minister, the other topic is that you are not doing anything to return the Armenian prisoners from Baku, you know, now the trial is underway, because they are your political opponents.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - I do not consider anyone there to be my political opponent, and on the contrary, moreover, we realize that what is happening is not only seriously worrying, but will also be used and is being used to provoke new escalations in the region. Moreover, we have intelligence information that prohibited psychotropic substances are being used against these people in order to extract statements and testimony from them aimed at provoking regional escalations. We are very concerned about this process.

In other words, according to what you said, it turns out that we are happy that these people are there. No, this trial will be used against the Republic of Armenia, it is very possible that they will extract testimony with the use of prohibited psychotropic substances, which they will be able to use in various ways against the Republic of Armenia. And we understand this issue very well and very deeply and are accountable to ourselves.

Petros Ghazaryan - And what are you doing?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - And we are trying to solve this problem by all available means. But I am not saying this to justify myself, today there are superpowers that have citizens in the same situation in different countries and have not been able to bring them back for years. Let's put aside the human moral thing, because considering that there are people who believe that we are devoid of a human face and devoid of moral rules. Let them think, but a threat is being generated against the Republic of Armenia. I am saying, we know, we have intelligence data that they will act against the Republic of Armenia using prohibited psychotropic substances, they will extract testimony. How can we say oh, how good it is, our political opponents are in prison in Baku? How can one think like that at all?

Petros Ghazaryan - The other issue is demarcation. I want to ask you directly: is it possible that as a result of demarcation, any of our strategic infrastructures, whether it be roads, gas pipeline, or heights, will remain in Azerbaijan?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Listen, none of our strategic infrastructures can remain with someone else as a result of demarcation. The meaning of demarcation is that internationally recognized de jure borders are expressed on the ground. Do you understand that what you are saying is completely contrary to the idea of demarcation?

Petros Ghazaryan - Let me give you an example, we are guided by maps, aren't we? We draw, measure, etc., and then we see that our gas pipeline objectively appeared in their territory, or in their target.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Look, this is not gas pipelination, this is demarcation. We have an internationally recognized border, which must be expressed on the ground, do you understand, the border must be expressed on the ground and this stems from the interests of the Republic of Armenia. Now, if, for example, there are situations when demarcation commissions come to a point that, including for the organization of infrastructure or people's lives, this or that territory is necessary, which de jure, that is, is located in the territory of the other country, but it is necessary that those territories of that country be exchanged, such situations are provided for there, including in the demarcation regulations issued by the OSCE, to which our opposition refers.

Petros Ghazaryan - But are we doing it in accordance with our regulations?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - That regulation is not a legal document, it is advisory...

Petros Ghazaryan - Advisory.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Yes, including that, but let me finish my idea. If such situations arise, it is possible to do so only through a referendum. If the delimitation commissions come to a conclusion, we will say, dear people, this territory is de jure the territory of one country, but the delimitation commissions have come to an understanding that this territory can be exchanged for that territory. Can the commissions do it? They cannot do it, they can propose it. Theoretically yes, I will say right away that there is no such topic now, it has not been discussed even once, but if such a situation arises, first of all, if the Government considers it acceptable, it should come to the people, say, people, there is such an option, should we go with this option or not? The people will decide whether we go or not.

I want us to pay attention, because the line itself has a thickness, a layer, for example, the line that is drawn on the map on the border is a millimeter, but on the ground it can be four meters, three meters, one meter. I'm not talking about such situations, usually even in those meters the border point is determined in the middle of that width. There is no problem there at all.

Petros Ghazaryan - And the last question, you have been criticized a lot recently for appointing women to the main part of the security structures and other positions. Why?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - And why not?

Petros Ghazaryan – Women and security…

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - I want to say the following, no one has been appointed to any position for being a woman or a man. They were appointed because the fact was that those candidates could work effectively in this situation and in this system, and besides, if we are talking about the appointment or a candidate nominated by us, our or my assessment was that at the given moment that official would be the most effective. No one has been appointed because she is a woman, can you imagine how absurd it would be?

Sorry, I don't understand that conversation very well. And in general, do we consider outside of this conversation that women should have greater involvement in all spheres of public life and it's not so that we should help, but should not hinder this from happening. In the Republic of Armenia, not only is the potential of women not being used, but all possible obstacles, in many cases conscious, in many cases unconscious, are being built to prevent this from happening. And why should this happen, why is it important? Because, I repeat, not because of any ideological reasons, or not only because of ideological considerations, but because women are the majority of the population of the Republic of Armenia, the majority. Can you imagine a country that does not use the potential of the majority of its population? That is an obstacle to development.

Petros Ghazaryan - Women themselves ask that question sometimes, thank you.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - I am grateful, but there are several issues that I would like to raise and that you mentioned, but we did not discuss, now I will have to use my social media platform to provide clarifications on these issues. So don't ask why you are so active on social media.

Petros Ghazaryan - You have made it clear that you are not preparing for a snap election.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - Yes, we are not planning a snap election, we are not preparing for one, and on the contrary, we have already scheduled our regular conference, we scheduled it before that, were we preparing for snap elections, we should have an extraordinary conference.

Petros Ghazaryan - Are you talking about the party?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – I am talking about the party, it's about forming a pre-election list.

Petros Ghazaryan - And if there were elections next week, how much changes would you do if you were to form your team? Approximately, how many percent would you change?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - You know, look, the conference that is expected just before the 2026 elections that I mentioned will be convened to form the parliamentary proportional list. And the parliamentary proportional list will now be formed by law at the conference, it is a tradition in our party, candidates will be nominated, party members will vote, and those who received the most votes will be placed on the list. And therefore, the team will be formed by the team's decision.

Petros Ghazaryan - How much would you change personally?

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan - I will express my positions at the party conference, I am also a voter, a delegate.

Petros Ghazaryan - We are ending our program in this diplomatic manner, thank you.

Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan – Thank you.